US Destroyer USS Fitzgerald

[Kesephist]

Dammit dammit dammit....

If those seven kids died 'cause some officer or officers couldn't pull their head out, that officer or officers oughta be cooling heels in Portsmouth, pending trial for seven negligent homicides at bare minimum.

All seven of those sailors should be getting considered for the Navy and Marine Medal (posthumous), as it seems likely to a simple landlubber such as I that if they hadn't secured those inboard hatches, Fitz could have foundered or sank. Not being in combat, the Navy Cross regretfully doesn't apply... on paper.

Chief, there is something wrong on this whole thing. Too many things had to go wrong for this to happen, sheer knuckleheadedness doesn't stretch far enough. There had to be someone computing course/speed solutions who shoulda shouted out "Engines Full, hard to port" or whatever would have been needful to command to take a hard left away from the pending collision.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Well, that's exactly my point. I'm not a braggart, but I spent most of my (at sea) career on the bridge of a ship. I earned my qual as an OOD back when I had..... oh 11 yrs in. Prior to that I was a Lee Helmsman, Helmsman, Master Helmsman, BMOW, Navigator, JOOD, CIC Watch Officer and EOOW (Engineering Officer of the Watch) all those steps to the OOD. BUT, I have more "experience" as a ship handler and bridge watch stander to know the "Rules of the Road" and as to how this could have happened. I know through my "experience" with the Surface Warfare Officer community that they only spend enough time on a command to get their quals and get off. That by having their SWO pin (Surface Warfare Officer) they know everything and are not to be challenged. I know that these SWOs have little to no ship handling experience and arrogance takes precedence when it comes to the OOD. (Standard sea shore rotation for a junior enlisted person is 5 sea/2 shore, Officers are 2 and 2) So it's beginning to sound to be that there was some major comms issues between the watchstanders and someone was "overruled" by the time the OOD realized his indecision put the ship in extremis his course of action was too late. I still take into consideration of the "high traffic" mentioned in the area. However to ME I don't see it as high traffic in MY opinion based on MY experience. I reviewed many maritime sites to try and get as many perspectives as I could on this.

Did I mention that I have a sore spot for Naval Officers? The last four at sea commands that I was on "I" trained junior officers how to be a shiphandler and an OOD, how to build weapons before I let them shoot them, how to build "mission packages" without out blowing themselves up..............back to the bridge. First they had to learn how to drive like an enlisted man before you could tell one "how" to drive. I had that luxury because I actually had a few good COs, that didn't know how to drive the ships either. Sometimes knowledge is power................make sure you wear sunglasses though cause their golden SWO pin is likely to blind you.

Yeah, that's what "Chiefs" do. Or that's what we used to do...................what's that? Fuck me? Oh I was just reminded that there are some serious ass kickers still out there that just kicked me in the balls and said they were CHIEFS! Tuff crowd....there's a few good ones still left! Hoo-Yah!

Still would like to see the track on the Fitz...............

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Here's another article on the Fitz, written by a former Naval Officer he gives HIS plausible scenarios. Funny........I didn't see mine in there anywhere. Still no word yet on what really happened, but I disagree with his "scenarios" so far it doesn't make sense in my "enlisted" mind.

http://maritime-executive.com/editor...rald-collision

[bacpacker]

Thanks for keeping your ear to the ground on this BWRR.

[Kesephist]

Here's another article on the Fitz, written by a former Naval Officer he gives HIS plausible scenarios. Funny........I didn't see mine in there anywhere. Still no word yet on what really happened, but I disagree with his "scenarios" so far it doesn't make sense in my "enlisted" mind.

http://maritime-executive.com/editor...rald-collision

The Canoe U. grads are going to do their damnedest to pin as much of this on the EM's, and as little on the officers as possible... hardly a surprise.

This bozo was right about one thing... the small fighting ships are looking at being pounded by the brass into do-it-all ships, but without the training or materials or people to do it with. Sort of thing you could get away with if you had a Nimitz-sized hull and materials, without the ongoing flight ops.

I'm hearing tell, now, Chief, that the Old Man was banged up because he was in his quarters at the time of the collision and his quarters was part of the damage, and him with it.

K

[Stg1swret]

CO,XO, and CMC have been relieved of duties today. Looks like this was a ship with big problems. That is the entire upper Chain of Command. The Board of Inquiry, and most likely subsequent Courts Martial will be very telling.

[bacpacker]

Stg, I hadn't heard this news before now! went and looked this up and found this short article.



http://www.mycentraloregon.com/2017/...dly-collision/

My Central Oregon.com

Navy to relieve USS Fitzgerald leadership for mistakes that led to deadly collision

The U.S. Navy will relieve the USS Fitzgerald’s commanding officer, executive officer and senior enlisted sailor for mistakes that lead to a deadly crash with a merchant ship in June.

Seven U.S. sailors lost their lives when the Navy destroyer collided with a Philippine container ship in the middle of the night off the coast of Japan.

The Navy announced Thursday that they intended to relieve the ship’s leadership after it was determined the Navy had lost trust and confidence in their ability to lead in those positions.

They are among a dozen of the ship’s crew who could face administrative action for their role in the collision. The Navy’s investigation into the collision continues.

This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.

[Stg1swret]

It will be a most interesting investigation. Hazarding a Vessel would be the formal charge for the CO (commanding Officer), that coupled with the loss of life, does not bode well. The fact that the XO (Executive Officer) , and the CMC ( Command Master Chief) have also been relieved, means there were big leadership issues onboard. I've seen, and been on a ship that had a CO relieved for cause, but never have I seen the entire upper command relieved.
Hazarding a Vessel is a very serious charge and the loss of life compounds the severity. The Fitzgerald will most likely be ordered back to homeport, major elements of the crew reassigned, and then sent to refresher training before being able to deploy again.

[Brownwater Riverrat 13]

Heard the news on the radio yesterday, plucked this article this morning seems to be the only one with any depth to it. ALSO it looks like they have already hammered a bunch of enlisted watch standers already with NJP, I'd still love to talk with BMOW. Like I said before it sounded like a FUBAR watch team but there's something that hasn't been told yet. Someone's actions or inaction is still overall responsible, NOT THE WHOLE WATCH TEAM! Still, ain't you ever heard of "ALL STOP" ..............I'd have loved to have been a dust bunny in the overhead of that bridge just to get the whole picture.

I'll be getting a data dump soon I hope.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politi...ved/index.html

[Stg1swret]

Massive failure. Bridge team and CIC. Failure to follow standing orders is probably also involved. Captain's Night Orders. Sounds like it was a total "Cluster Fuck". Having served on destroyers for most of my naval career, there is a lot gone wrong here. Also wonder what the lookouts were doing. I'm sure that many did there job, but the wrong people didn't. CO was still asleep in his at sea cabin, why not wake him and notify of close approach as is the usual procedure. CIC should have and probably did notify bridge as did the wing lookouts. QM would have been able to establish base course of both ships and recommend course changes and speed changes. When it became obvious that the ships would physically meet, GQ, rig for collision, and "ALL STOP", followed by "All Back Full", could of and should have been ordered. This is after all a gas turbine powered ship, not and older stem boiler powered ship.